We should be happy about the old ass 370z

"Hans Kuiper" (hanschepuve) 11/05/2019 at 14:19 • Filed to: None

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commenters on Jalopnik are a weird ass bunch (in a crappy way) - Always complaining only new cars are hybrid crossovers and suvs, that nothing with 4 doors or a tall ride height is a Coupe, and that the Manual transmission is dying along with N/A engines.

They say, why cant they take X old car and build them new, I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Then complain how the 370Z, a 2 door affordable coupe with a Stick shift, N/A engine sucks hard, it should be killed because... it doesnt come with CarPlay?

I L O V E how Nissan has kept the 370z and the GTR for so long, in 10 years from now on you could buy a decent priced/decent condition used one and enjoy your analog experience thanks to this fact.

I guess memory is not a thing with these kind of people, the exact same bunch who did not buy the NSX, Supra or RX7 back when it was new in lots and nobody wanted them.

Chariotoflove > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:26

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Hans, my friend, you’re missing the logic. Others with money should make those cars so these guys can buy them used as a huge discount in five years. It’s that trickle down economics or something.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:28

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Affordable? Pricing is $ CAD, but I’d rather have a mustang

Hans Kuiper > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 11/05/2019 at 14:33

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It is kind of affordable, in US starts at 30k, Bet you could get one under MSRP easily.

The thing is a few mods away from being a mini GTR and its a true Analog driving experience.

Hans Kuiper > Chariotoflove 11/05/2019 at 14:34

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What Ive always said, if you dont buy new, you dont have a vote in what should be on dealerships.

Nick Has an Exocet > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:35

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I think the bigger issue is the price and lack of updates. Like, who is going to pay $34k for this when you can get an Ecoboost Mustang PP with the same HP for $2k less and hits 0-60 in 4.5 instead of 5.0 with the Z . Then you might be asking yourself: shouldn’t Nissan just put [insert 2.0L turbo here] in to refresh it? But they don’t really have that engine. It JUST debuted in the Altima with the VC turbo motor. Nissan’s engine tech has been out of date for a decade and likely won’t drop into a RWD platform. They have a problem entirely of their own making. Let’s face it, the 370Z is a sports car with a Murano engine. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:37

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I admit , I am intrigued by them, but I hear they are kinda boaty?

I would be down to drive one though

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:38

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affordable? doesnt a new 370z run like 40k? its a bad buy when you can get Mustang GT for around the same with more power

fintail > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:42

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Being spectacularly unpretty doesn’t help, aint got no alibi.

WiscoProud > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:42

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I love the 370Z. I just wish i could fit into it. If they made the seat an inch or two lower, or the ceiling higher, we’d be all good. 

i86hotdogs > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:44

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“We want a manual coupe with power!”

*Z, Challenger, Mustang, Camaro exist*

“NO!! ‘ ANCIENT’ PLATFORMS!

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:45

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The Mustang Ecoboost and BRZ/86 exist which are both far better cars to buy new in 2019 than a 370z. The 370z is a dinosaur which needs to be replaced with something with the features expected of a new car.

Textured Soy Protein > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 11/05/2019 at 14:47

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The 350/370Z drives like an Infiniti G but with a sports car body shape that leads to worse interior/cargo  room and visibility. The driving experience is not made noticeably different by the change into the sports car body shape. You get the look at the expense of the practicality. But even if they’re dated they are cool looking. 

CobraJoe > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:56

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I L O V E how Nissan has kept the 370z and the GTR for so long, in 10 years from now on you could buy a decent priced/decent condition used one and enjoy your analog experience thanks to this fact.

It’s even better than that, because the z has seen so few changes over such a long time frame, aftermarket upgrade parts are very widely available!

Textured Soy Protein > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 14:59

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The lack of CarPlay/Android Auto doesn’t even really bug me because at least on the lower trims without navigation, there’s a standard double-DIN slot for a new headunit with those features. The Sport trim gives you the good sporty bits like the LSD, big brakes, Rays wheels and some aero bits .

CobraJoe > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 11/05/2019 at 15:00

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Aff ordable? Pricing is $CAD, but I’d rather have a mustang

It’s very comparable to an Ecoboost Mustang, especially once you start comparing sport packages. The Z is a little lighter, the Ecoboost has a bit more torque...

I’d probably have a tough time choosing between the two if specs and driving were the sole considerations.  

ranwhenparked > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 15:12

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Personally, I love when cars stay in production forever, as long as they were decent to start with. Planned obsolescence is stupid, if consumers want to keep buying the old model, let them.

Why do we love authenticity in some consumer products (knives, boots, cigarette lighters, jackets, expensive egg mixers, watches, beer and spirits, pens, record players, etc ), but demand that cars be completely redesigned every 5-7 years just because? Maybe the Morgan model can be made to work for more than just Morgans.

Chariotoflove > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 15:15

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Yup.

CobraJoe > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 15:20

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What Ive always said, if you dont buy new, you dont have a vote in what should be on dealerships.

But why should I buy new when they don’t make what I’m willing to pay that much money for?

That’s the annoying catch-22 for my situation.  

Shift24 > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 15:30

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I sort of see this for the GTR but not the Z. It needs to be killed or revamped. I love the 1st gen NSX but was over priced for what it was after 1998. At   well over $90k for the NA2 in 2002 . That was $ 15k more then the Vi per of the time.

Read M att Farah’s take on the 370z. He has driven way more drivers cars that we could ever think of.

$ 30k is too much especially when you can get a boost ‘ stang or Camaro for mid 20s. A tune for them and the 370z is in the rear view. At that point your buying a z legacy everyone has forgot about.

This is similar to what happened to the EVO. A Company searching for a direction and letting a fan favorite with racing perigee fade into the void. Either kill it or next gen it.

This isnt the 4runner where people are buying more and more of them.

https://jalopnik.com/theres-an-important-difference-between-old-and-classic-1834146399#js_discussion-region

HammerheadFistpunch > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 15:38

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David and I were discussing this very thing about the Frontier.  Sometimes old...isn’t bad.

ST80MND > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 16:12

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I agree 100 percent with the 370. I'm not sure why it gets so much hate, it's reliable, fast and dirt cheap. As such, it's on the short list for next car. The g35 is cheap as hell too, but the 370 seems to escape the boy racer/ Dorifto stance crowd, and are easy to find not "modified".

nermal > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 16:42

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The problem with the 370z is that it really wasn’t that good to begin with. Now it’s a 10+ yr old design that wasn’t really good to begin with, and not worth it.

The $30k selling price will get you a Mustang or Camero that is a bazillion times better in most every way .

Hans Kuiper > Textured Soy Protein 11/05/2019 at 17:06

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In the case of the 370z is a few mods from a great handling car, especially since its wheelbase is Shorter than any G series and even shorter than the 350Z one.

Hans Kuiper > CobraJoe 11/05/2019 at 17:08

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Then I guess you have to wait and see what comes up, and support whatever that checks at least 75% of your list.

If you never buy new, then you just gotta deal with whatever is popular, in these day and age, that is 4 cylinder CVT crossover/Suvs.

Hans Kuiper > Nick Has an Exocet 11/05/2019 at 17:12

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I get it, but come on, part of the magic is the 6 cylinder soundtrack and torque, ALSO, do you know how hard is to improve the VQ37 while keeping it N/A? the thing is almost making 100hp per liter, is reliable and can sound good.

Add a supercharger or a turbo kit and its a completely different beast, also afaik, the Z has seen some improvements, just not as big as the GTR.

And those who complain about it not having a modern auto/DCT can suck it, its a sports car with a Manual.

HOT TAKE: The mustang is a Sports car with the V8 from an F150.

Hans Kuiper > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/05/2019 at 17:16

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You dont get my point. People around here love to moan about modern features, how they “want” an analog car. But then complain that the 370z lacks modern features and is ancient.

Hans Kuiper > ranwhenparked 11/05/2019 at 17:18

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Exactly, wouldnt it be nice if lets say, I could buy a brand new S2000 with some added Nav, airbags and some other safety features like blind spot monitoring, headsup display etc, stuff that can be added to the platform.

CobraJoe > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 17:20

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Then I guess you have to wait and see what comes up, and support whatever that checks at least 75% of your list.

But again, that’s a $20k+ purchase for something that I don’t fully enjoy?

Why would I put myself through that kind of annoyance while paying $300+ a month for years?

Besides, my one “vote” for buying something that’s only 75% of what I want is only going to vote for building more of that thing that is only 75% of what I want.

It’s not like I’m wanting something that difficult, I just want a NA powered coupe with a manual and some actually usability.  The BRZ and Challenger come damn close, but one is too cramped and one is too expensive.  

Hans Kuiper > Shift24 11/05/2019 at 17:20

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I understand the point, I do believe it needs some modern features, but my point is how much people around here complain about modern features, like electronic nannies, auto everything, sensors lights and bleeping warnings and say how they want an analog experience, yadda yadda, but then always critique the Z for being just what they are asking for.

Why does it bother you that its old, ancient, a dinosaur, etc? IMO its a good package especially in todays market. dont want to pay up? buy used or find a great deal, im sure you can haggle one below msrp

Hans Kuiper > nermal 11/05/2019 at 17:22

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How are you so sure it wasnt that good to begin with? the 350z was really popular and tunable, and the 370 one upped everything on the 350z.

Go back to 2009 and compare it to what was available on the market, and the fact that today its still in the range regarding HP, weight, etc its not bad

Textured Soy Protein > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 17:22

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I’ve driven several Zs and Gs over the years. They might not drive identically , but at least to me, while I love the Z styling, the drive isn’t different enough from the G to make me want to pick the Z over the G and give up the room and visibility.

Hans Kuiper > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 11/05/2019 at 17:22

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a new one starts at 30k - which is possible to find, and you can get used ones from 9k to 25k

Hans Kuiper > i86hotdogs 11/05/2019 at 17:23

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E X A C T L Y my point.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 17:25

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But the Mustang, Camaro, Miata,  and BRZ/86 have those modern features and are still analog driving experiences.

Hans Kuiper > fintail 11/05/2019 at 17:30

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The taste for things is like the  asshole, everybody has one.

Also, looks great IMO and has such a huge aftermarket so you can make it look how you want it to, too.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 17:32

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i still think its woefully uncompetitive in its segment.

i86hotdogs > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 17:35

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I do not understand why being on an old platform is a negative mark on a vehicle. 

fintail > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 18:25

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And everyone elses’ stinks :)

I greatly preferred the 03-09 styling.   But valid point on the aftermarket, maybe one can do a retro conversion.

Urambo Tauro > HammerheadFistpunch 11/05/2019 at 18:53

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In the fleet at work we have a Frontier and a Color ado (both ’18s I think) and I prefer the Frontier because I don’t like the Colorado’s bloated chunkiness, bed rail height, and touchscreen. I’d hate to  see the new Frontier end up like that .

Urambo Tauro > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 18:56

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I applaud platforms that are kept arou nd for more than a decade. It usually indicates that they did something right and there’s no need to fix what ain’t broke .

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ranwhenparked 11/05/2019 at 19:04

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I wish this were the case for phone hardware.  If manufacturers would actually stick to maximizing the efficiency of the software, we wouldn’t need new hardware every six months.

Nauraushaun > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 20:50

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I found this guy compelling.

https://jalopnik.com/1839470504

Nick Has an Exocet > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 21:41

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It can sound.... okay. I think it sounds like a highschool kid playing a single trombone note at various levels of volume .

I don’t really care about the autotragic. It never needed a DCT since it has a manual available. The damn thing should ONLY be sold in manual.

You’re right about the V8 Mustang (sort of). The two variants (Mustang and F150) were co-developed. However, the engine was kind of aimed at competing with the LS (which is also shared between sports cars and trucks/SUVs ). Now Viper V10 on the other hand....

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Hans Kuiper 11/05/2019 at 22:03

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Did anyone else read the 50th anniversary review on another outlet?

Yeah, I was not impressed.

a marginal approximation of a classic livery that wasn’t factory in the first place.

an ugly car, with no measurable improvements, cosmetic only, on a car that could really USE some upgrades.

A fundamentally sound premise that is let down by everything other than the fundamentals.

The predecessor looks better, and there is no advantage to buy new over buying many years worth of used cars.

cheaper, newer cars handle better, being the Toyota/Subaru 86/BRZ... but those are let down by lack of power, they could use 370Z’s power level, and could meet it with a turbocharger.

newer, bigger, more comfortable and more practical cars cost about the same, and have the same or better power from newer turbocharged, direct-injected I4 engines, especially Mustang’s new HPP EcoBoost, or Camaro’s V6, and can handle pretty much just as well, despite being larger and heavier.

370Z makes ~330hp, and less than 300tq out of 3.7 liters.

Mustang EB-HPP makes ~330hp, and 350tq at under 3K RPM, out of 2.3 liters, and the engine may not only be smaller, bit might be lighter, even including the turbo and plumbing.

ALL of them have more amenities and better technology for the price. being elemental doesn’t cost less, and being technological doesn’t cost appreciably more.

The size, the proportions of wheelbase and track width, and the idea of a sports car at an affordable price, with mid-300hp and torque is a good idea.

370Z falls way behind, and looks bad doing it. It still looks like a frog, and the grille at one point made it look like it had fangs.

Arguably, a car that occupies 370Z’s market position is EXACTLY what I want.

Arguably, the 370Z in that market position, and languishing there, is EXACTLY the car I don’t want.

Could be so great. In actuality, is so disappointing.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > i86hotdogs 11/05/2019 at 22:13

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Because technology progresses. Because smaller cars like BRZ, and larger cars like Mustang, handle just as well or better. 370Z loses any advantage for being more expensive than BRZ, or smaller than Mustang, and using far older tech, and older chassis engineering techniques than both.

And both of those competitors are MacPherson strut cars built to a lower entry price point than Nissan Z was, which should perform better with a double-wishbone suspension. (two control arms, not using the strut for upper suspension geometry and location)

If the chassis had been kept up with continual development, and maybe hired an actually good designer, rather than siphoning all that money off into Ghosn’s pocket, Nissan Z would be a significant mainstream performance car, instead of an also-ran with no real advantage over it’s competition, or itself as a depreciated used car.

Hans Kuiper > CobraJoe 11/06/2019 at 08:40

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I think you can get a V6 Manual Camaro, the V6 sounds like a freakin Cayman and that chassis HANDLES, and its comfortable and useable too.

I say V6, because its NA, reasonably powered and kind of affordable.

CobraJoe > Hans Kuiper 11/06/2019 at 09:34

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I think you can get a V6 Manual Camaro, the V6 sounds like a freakin Cayman and that chassis HANDLES, and its comfortable and useable too.

It’s barely any better than the BRZ. The back seat is impossible to access, incredibly tight, with horrible visibility , and the trunk is laughable.

I might be pretty spoiled by having owned a Foxbody Mustang hatchback for a long time, but there is no reason why a modern pony car couldn’t have decent visibility, a usable back seat, and a liftback/hatchback.

Shift24 > Hans Kuiper 11/06/2019 at 10:32

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It’s a dinosaur that isn’t very good. With new safety regs its gotten slower due to them over the years . I cant find the article but the 0-60 for 2011 and 2018 show it. You used to see 350z running all over the place. At the time they gave Camaro s and Mustangs a run for their money. I cant remember the last time I saw a 370z

My biggest problem with the Z now is complacency. Its Nissan’s only affordable sports car. Do something with it. These special editions are just collector Bullshit.

Make a turbo or SC version. Strip the damn thing and sell it like a GT3. Sell one that’s track day ready. Do a true wide body. Face lift it, do something.

FCA is a master at this with their aging platforms. The C harger, challenger, Grand Cherokee, and Durango are all 10 or more years old. How are people still attracted to these cars? They face lifted it, they wide bodied it, they SC it (not Durango but still). They didn’t let the platform just sit.

And as many haven’t bothered buying one new (3k last year) why not only buy used. Meaning if they killed it it’s not really going to affect the avalibity of the car.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/nissan-0-60-mph-times/

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/nissan/nissan-370z/

i86hotdogs > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/06/2019 at 11:26

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I now understand why being on an old platform is a negative mark on a vehicle.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > i86hotdogs 11/06/2019 at 13:35

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The sad part is... the chassis fundamentals are good, the car doesn’t need a clean-sheet reboot . The tuning and construction techniques, weight management, suspension technology, and stuff that builds on those fundamentals have left Nissan Z in the past, as well as exterior and interior styling, and amenities.

The idea of the Z car is not a bad idea, and never has been. I t has just been allowed to whither on the vine, so to speak, rather than harvested, pruned, and allowed to grow.

i86hotdogs > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/06/2019 at 14:15

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I guess most of my confusion and frustration is for the Challenger/ Charger/300 platform. Yes, it started as a shared E-class platform (correct me if I’m wrong on that). But I believe they have done enough to update it through its tenure. They tend to their appropriate buyer with Hellcats, variety of trims, “wide body” variants. But the same comments are below every article: “Old platform!”

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > i86hotdogs 11/06/2019 at 15:19

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It isn’t really a black and white rule.

P eople do criticize the LX and LY chassis Chryslers a bit, but they also aren’t portraying themselves on their ultimate chassis dynamics. They are big, massive muscle cars and a luxury car. As long as they GO fast, look cool, and are generally fairly smooth... the are cars for a traditionalist, not necessarily as much of a perfectionist. Handling isn’t necessarily the epitome.

However, LX and LY have periodically updated over time, and while it shares aspects with older Mercedes Benz platforms, it hasn’t stood still in that time... as you’ve noted.

T he look and feel of the car beyond the chassis specs has been kept up, as well, which goes a LONG way, especially with people who are less technically savvy with automotive engineering trends.

The sports car niche is a particular thing... and it tends to appeal to people who are more particular about more aspects of their cars.

I use this analogy a lot... it isn’t enough to just put a shot on the target... a really good sports car, even MORESO one for mainstream buyers who aren’t very wealthy, it has to be a bullseye to get people to commit to buying a car that likely can’t be their primary vehicle, or if it is, is a practicality sacrifice.

If the looks, feel, performance, upkeep, and value propositions aren’t ALL on point, it gets harder to justify spending scarce dollars on a new car that depreciates quickly, compared to buying a bit more appealing version of a practical car, or a used performance car, motorcycle, or allocating the money to some other priority.

Hans Kuiper > CobraJoe 11/06/2019 at 16:31

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I think the visibility point applies to any 2015+ vehicle TBH.

I dont know what standards you have, but the fact that you tell me a Foxbody got you spoiled, but that the Back seat of a modern (read: HUGE) Camaro and its trunk are laughably small makes me think you are not thaaat sure about what you want.

I believe what you want is a... Macan! Sporty, Handles great, has usable backseat and trunk and its a hatchback.

See why people are into Suvs lol

Hans Kuiper > Shift24 11/06/2019 at 16:34

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I agree with that, see, my point is not that the 370Z is perfect or hasnt aged, or has aged well (or not), my point is that this brand new car do fit into what most enthusiasts (think they) want new.

But then they complain about how its old, is not modern enough, doesnt have useable backseat, etc etc. And when time comes of a discussion about what they want, lots of people say, Why cant they just build X old car new again??

Meanwhile, people who buy new actually love their Suvs and Crossovers lol

CobraJoe > Hans Kuiper 11/06/2019 at 17:34

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I dont know what standards you have, but the fact that you tell me a Foxbody got you spoiled, but that the Back seat of a modern (read: HUGE) Camaro and its trunk are laughably small makes me think you are not thaaat sure about what you want.

Well, I have ridden in the back seat of a foxbody hatchback on a 3 hour drive, and I’m 6'2" tall. The legroom sucked, but otherwise I was comfortable. And the cargo capacity of the hatchback was enormous and easy to load with the seat folded down.

The back seat of the new Camaro is a pretty tight, not just for leg room, but for head room too. The Mustang has the same problem, the sloping roofline makes it too low for anyone semi-tall in the back seat.

But the trunk of the camaro is the laughable part. It’s reasonably sized inside, but the lid is more of a flap.

I think the visibility point applies to any 2015+ vehicle TBH.

Some more than others... But visibility from the back seat of a camaro is pretty horrible. It’s a smaller complaint, but I do plan on carrying my kids in the back, and I’d rather have them watch out the windows than a phone or tablet.

I believe what you want is a... Macan! Sporty, Handles great, has usable backseat and trunk and its a hatchback.

See why people are into Suvs lol

God no. I want a functional coupe, not a “sporty CUV”.

Besides, we already have a crossover, and it does it’s job well, but I don’t want to live with one when I don’t need to haul the kids everywhere.

You do have a somewhat valid point... I’m not completely sure that the available offerings won’t work for me (And I’m waiting to do the actual research because I’m not ready to buy just yet) , but I’m still disappointed that there is nothing comparable to my old foxbody hatchback either.